Bluenose Gopher Public House, Painted Prairie Vineyard, and Forbidden Barrel Brewing Company

This episode brought together a unique group with similar business types but very different business models. One was a cooperative pub, one was a destination winery and one was a brewery. All three had just opened (or re-opened) in 2019 and were gaining some great momentum when COVID hit. Learn how they faced the marketing and business challenges of not only starting up, but working through a global pandemic, then coming out the other side of Startup Reinvention with a renewed commitment to their businesses.

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Transcript

Betsy Bonnema (00:07):
The thing you had in common was that you were all very new businesses who were faced with this challenge of COVID.

Melissa P. (00:13):
But it was always just really a question mark as to whether we were going to be able to survive it or not.

Krista K. (00:20):
This was a year of just a roller coaster, and you were always having to adapt.

Brent (00:26):
As a business owner and as an entrepreneur, it's about experimenting and trying something new and pushing the envelope.

Betsy Bonnema (00:35):
It's incredible what you've overcome to still be here and still be in business.

Andy K. (00:41):
Number one, don't fear change, especially don't fear failure from your change.

Betsy Bonnema (00:53):
Welcome to Episode Two of Lost and Found. We're going to hear some great stories today. We had a group go through our Reinvention Program, that was really unique in that they were all sort of in the same business. A couple breweries, a winery and a pub, they shared so much in common with their struggles and stories. Today we're going to hear from three of them. The first is Bluenose Gopher Public House, which is in Granite Falls, Minnesota. Melissa, who's Chair of the Board, they are a co-op model, and Luwaina who is the COO joined us in our workshop, and Melissa joins us on the podcast today.

Betsy Bonnema (01:33):
They opened their doors in 2019, and obviously that made for quite a struggle when COVID hit when they were so young into their business. So they have a really unique way in that they're really wanting to bring ideas to life in their space. And they do that through lots of great beverages and food, and by creating a gathering space. The second business is called Forbidden Barrel in Worthington, Minnesota, and it is owned and operated by Brent and Cheryl, who are entrepreneurs who are working full-time and making this new business happen in their community.

Betsy Bonnema (02:11):
They again started in 2019, just like Bluenose, so they have that same storyline in that they were just getting their feet under them when COVID hit. At the Forbidden Barrel, they believe that creating fellowship builds community and invites visitors, and that's what drives them every day. Krista and Andy are entrepreneurs, a husband and wife team that are creating an oasis that's rooted in nature, fosters social connection and supports opportunities to enrich lives. That is their why, and that is what drives them every day.

Betsy Bonnema (02:46):
They have a family business. They live on the beautiful property that Painted Prairie is on. And they had undergone a big construction project, built a pavilion on their property that opened in 2019. So again, we've got three businesses that really were just getting a bunch of momentum and getting their legs under them in 2019 when COVID hit. So they shared a lot of struggles, and a lot of their story lines they kind of connected on. So this episode is all about these three businesses and I can't wait for you to hear more.

Melissa P. (03:24):
My name is Melissa Peterson, and I'm currently the Chair of the Board of Directors for Bluenose Gopher Public House, and I'm also the Chair of the Events and Marketing Action Team.

Brent (03:37):
Brent and Cheryl at Forbidden Barrel Brewing. Myself and my wife started the business here.

Krista K. (03:44):
So we are Krista and Andy Kopperud, and we are owners of Painted Prairie Vineyard, which is a farm winery by Currie, Minnesota.

Betsy Bonnema (03:53):
Again, I want to just jump into a little bit of this process we went through together where we started out all feeling a little lost for different reasons, and I wanted to know for the sake of everyone listening, we have to assume a lot of startup alumni who have been in some of the same situations you guys have been in. The point of this podcast is to really help us connect with other business owners like yourselves. We can't do it in person and we can't all have classes together but we can do it through this podcast.

Betsy Bonnema (04:26):
So as operators and leaders of significant businesses in rural Minnesota, I'm just wondering if you could share with us how you felt. So Melissa, when Bluenose Gopher got going, you were just kind of hitting your stride and you're helping to lead this cooperative model, and then you get word that we're going to have a pandemic and that's going to vastly change how we live our lives. So tell me how you felt when you've kind of figured out what that might look like.

Melissa P. (05:02):
Well, we had to shut down for a couple of months, but we ended up staying shutdown longer than... We could have reopened but chose not to for a while, because we just were so unsure of what our revenue would be, and the idea of paying employees and utility bills and everything else while we had no idea where that revenue would be coming from was just very difficult. We also at the time that the restaurants reopened, we did not have an outdoor space, other than a small deck. So when restaurants in Minnesota originally reopened, you were only allowed to do outdoor dining, and that really wasn't an option for us until we were able to work with the city to allow us to have a patio outside. And then at that point is when we decided to reopen.

Melissa P. (05:57):
But for a while it was really touch and go because we were just living on what we had in that bank account, and wondering if that was going to run out before we were able to really reopen our doors and get the business up and running again. We were thankfully able to take advantage of some of the CARES funding and COVID funding that came out from the government and other places. And so that money really did give us a little extra cushion or extra wiggle room in order to make it through those really tough times. But it was always just really a question mark as to whether we were going to be able to survive it or not.

Betsy Bonnema (06:45):
I feel like one of the things that happened with our conversations with you is you really honed in on sort of your why. And I feel like, and maybe this is true for everybody in COVID, we all had to figure that out. Because in order for us to survive it, we all had to figure out, "Well, what's our why and what are we trying to come back to after COVID sort of settles in?" So I'm excited to kind of talk about that, because I feel like you guys have such a powerful why, and it's so admirable and inspiring. So yeah, we'll talk about that in a minute.

Betsy Bonnema (07:23):
So Brent, I don't know, I wouldn't necessarily describe you as lost because you have a very firm idea of who you are and where you're going. You have a confidence about your vision for your business, which is super inspiring to hear. But I think we all have questions, right? I remember you having questions about, "What should we be doing right now?" And when COVID hit, I mean, from the sounds of it, you sort of tried a lot of things. But tell us a little bit about how it felt to have just been going for a short time and then find out that the world was going to change all of a sudden, and there was no more rules anymore, and no more guidelines, you just had to figure it out. What was that like for you and Cheryl?

Brent (08:11):
I think like everyone, it was a challenge. Nobody knew you're making the right decision, wrong decision, you just have to make a decision. And once you make a plan that's to stick with it and go with it, and be willing to adjust that thought process as you go through it, to see what's working, what's not working. And expand on the stuff that's working, keep heading down that line, cut out the stuff that isn't working, or maybe rethink it, or was it implemented wrong?

Brent (08:51):
But it all comes back to a lot of things that I learned growing up in my life, and my dad probably taught me was he would always say, "Where there's a will there's a way." So it's always one of those kind of attitudes that you got to have when things are a struggle, it's you got to find a way to make it work. The alternative is to just sit back and watch it all go away, and we weren't prepared to do that.

Betsy Bonnema (09:28):
Yeah. I have a note here that, I don't know if I'm going to share all it said, is that within about 48 hours you'd completely rewritten your business plan.

Brent (09:37):
And we've probably rewritten it several times since then. But yeah, we completely went through the business plan and we said, "These are the things we can do, these are things we can't do. And in order to execute on this business plan, these are the things that we're going to have to invest in. These are the things we're going to have to do to follow this business plan in this new environment." Nothing that any of us were prepared to do or would ever want to do again. But I think it holds true for any business at any point in their existences, sometimes things that are working today aren't going to work tomorrow, and we've always got to be evaluating that business plan to say, "This is where things we do really well at and that the community wants. These are the things that we used to do really well at and the community doesn't seem to want anymore," and rethink it.

Betsy Bonnema (10:52):
The lesson we keep hearing from you is that your willingness to rethink it sort of never ends.

Brent (10:57):
To my wife's chagrin, probably.

Betsy Bonnema (11:01):
Yeah. I feel like if the world could hear the behind the scenes stories of all the business owners like you guys, that what they had to do to get to the other side, and it was just so many unsung heroes of long nights and hard decisions and risks and things, so amazing that you're hanging in there, Brent. And I'm guessing things are busy again, and you're back strong as ever?

Brent (11:25):
We had the busiest week two weeks ago that we have had since our grand opening, so that was huge for us. It felt like even when times were good before the COVID that we had finally broke out of that funk, and just blew it out of the water here a couple weeks ago. And so that was exciting to see, and it gives you a lot of positive thoughts for where we're going in the future.

Betsy Bonnema (12:02):
Wow. Well, that's great to hear. You deserved it. Wow. Excellent. Okay. Thank you for sharing that. I'm excited too to dive into a little bit more of your story about your why and how that sort of really solidified too through our process here. Andy and Krista, so you had just opened your new facility on your property, and were excited to show the world and kind of grow into this new space and the new opportunities it offered. And then COVID hit, and you had to, I think Krista went into marketing mode I think, and you tried a lot of neat things. And some of them worked and some of them didn't. So tell us about how that felt in those weeks and months when you were trying to get a handle on the next step.

Krista K. (12:56):
Well, I think Brent nailed it. I mean, all of us had to dig deep and we had to pivot very, very quickly and make decisions. We were in a spot where we had just hired our first full-time hire, literally great when everything shut down. And both of us are extremely stubborn, and we were like, "Mm-mm (negative). This is not going to take us down." So we really started thinking about what we needed to grow. So it was online presence, we did a lot more with marketing delivery, and we within like a couple days of the shutdown had our first virtual happy hour. So we invited people just to come and join us with a glass of wine, and just to say, "Cheers, and to hang in there." So we did that weekly for a few weeks before everyone else started doing their own virtual happy hours with their friends.

Krista K. (14:04):
But yeah, I think the more we thought outside the box, the better. So our Mayday baskets were huge, a way for people to connect with people that they couldn't be in contact with. It continued to morph, and again some things were amazing, some things didn't go well, but we had to keep trying. And then once we got through the first shut down or at least the start of it, we really started honing in on our outside because we felt that that was going to be a pretty vital place for people to hang out. And so we invested a lot of money into our outside patio area. We didn't have a choice, and I will say that investing for us at that point even though it was scary, it was the right thing to do.

Krista K. (15:01):
And so we still grew as a business. It wasn't always pretty, but it was an inviting space for people to be in. We have so many acres on site that we could spread people out very, very easily and safely. But it was scary. I hope we don't have to experience anything like that ever again, and wonder if we'll even have our lights on in a month, or even the following week honestly at times.

Betsy Bonnema (15:37):
Krista, you mentioned a couple times, maybe Melissa you can speak to this, you had some moments of real burnout, like some real moments of, "I've hit a wall here." We saw that, didn't we, Melissa? And a couple times Krista was like, "But what about the burnout? What about the fact that I'm really tired? How do you work through that?"

Krista K. (16:00):
This was a year of just a roller coaster, and you were always having to adapt. And I think we had seven business models in that year alone, and it was just like every other week was, "Here we go again. What does this mean? What do we do with this information and move forward?" It just was a roller coaster.

Betsy Bonnema (16:25):
Yeah. You seem good today. I think every entrepreneur when they see that look on your face and they hear your voice, they know exactly what you're going through. I think that it's a special kind of pain that you only feel when you're overwhelmed and also everything you have is at stake, and there's just a lot right riding on some tough moments. So I thank you for walking through that with us, and it looks like you've made it to the other side on some level, and it sounds like business is back. How are things for you guys business-wise?

Andy K. (17:05):
It's looking really good. We were looking at the numbers last night, May was one of our biggest months ever. And if Wednesday is busy enough, June will be the highest grossing month we've ever had. So we're on the right track.

Betsy Bonnema (17:21):
Congrats.

Andy K. (17:22):
It feels like in tune with everything we're pushing now, so good.

Betsy Bonnema (17:27):
Again, nobody deserves it more having had to get through all of those ups and downs, such a roller coaster. So let's talk a little bit about how you did that and what carried you through some of those really tough times, difficult decisions. And one thing I saw in all of you in your stories and in your work, is just that it seemed like you kind of got regrounded around why you're in business in the first place. And maybe we can start with you, Melissa. I think it felt really neat when you and Luwaina who went through with you and you guys ended up having great conversations about.

Betsy Bonnema (18:05):
There's so many details to running your business in particular, because it's the model and because you run events and you have a lot going on. But the reason that you exist and that idea that it's all about ideas that you're there to be a place for ideas to grow. So tell us a little bit about that ability to kind of rally back around that core why that you started with, but maybe had lost sight of a little bit.

Melissa P. (18:37):
Yeah. Well, our why I don't think was fully apparent to us in the beginning. I mean, it sort of was. As a collaborative, we have founding principles and certain things that we do were very community-based and focused on bringing people in. But I don't know that we'd ever really sat down and thought about, "Okay, why do we exist to the level that we kind of did in our group and talk about who we are and what our reason is for being?" And it was very cool as we went through the process to see not only coming to the place of understanding that we are a place for people to come in, that public house model for people to come in and talk and bring ideas.

Melissa P. (19:33):
And we take all comers, we'll talk through it, we'll figure out what we can and can't do, but we're very willing and very open to those things. And when we did where we talked to our tribe, the people, so for us our tribe is of course our member owners, our fellow people who support what we do, but also a lot of just regular customers and are people who are aware of us. And it was so neat in talking to them to see how they had picked up on that why, even though it really hasn't been really a part of our marketing strategy or something that we talk about a lot. But they were really in agreement that we're a place that is welcoming and open, and they feel comfortable coming in and talking about things, bringing ideas, making suggestions, and being a part of the cooperative. Of course that's what we want, that's who we are.

Betsy Bonnema (20:45):
Yeah. You play such an important role in your community and among your members. And the idea that that's probably way more motivating to get through those tough times and get back on track, than figuring out how many types of panini sandwiches you're going to serve. Because all of that is just the means to an end. The why is really what gives you that energy to get back and get to work and figure it out, right?

Melissa P. (21:15):
Exactly. As good as our sandwiches are, that's not the reason we exist. Yes. And that's another thing that I would speak to and when other people were talking that there's pros and cons to being a cooperative, but one of the things that is nice is, you always have others supporting you. So there was never really a time where I ever felt like I was on my own or by myself, or I was having to make all these decisions and just hope for the best. There's always others there to discuss with and brainstorm with and talk through and come to a decision, so that's nice.

Betsy Bonnema (21:59):
I remember hearing you say that your tribe appreciated that you were daring to be different, that you were willing to be different. And that had to feel good knowing the tough decisions you were making and having to make to stay afloat.

Melissa P. (22:17):
Well, we're starting something called Try It Thursday's, and we are just talking to all of our members and customers and whoever we can, and having people come in and just teach a skill or talk about a passion of theirs.

Betsy Bonnema (22:33):
Probably not something you can find anywhere else, which is neat. That's exciting.

Melissa P. (22:38):
Yeah.

Betsy Bonnema (22:38):
All right. Well, thank you. So Brent, we learned a couple neat things about your business and kind of where maybe some of your passion comes from. And so you and Cheryl shared, before you started this brewery, you already sort of had a culture in your family around bringing people together, and you like to have big holidays and lots of people joined, and that was really something that felt like part of who you were as a family. Is that part of how you got inspired to create the brewery?

Brent (23:17):
Absolutely. I mean, I think it's a central key to the brewery, it's looking back at the things that were important to me, things that I experienced growing up that I didn't see happening in today's world anymore. We wanted a space where people could get together, sit down and talk, and see that neighbor they haven't seen in three months or three years, or whatever it is that they can all get up there, sit down, mix and mingle among their tables and have those experiences that are away from technology, that are away from cell phones and TVs, and just really get to have a good conversation.

Brent (24:11):
And like our family, it's no matter what holiday it is or time of the year, day, if you know that there's somebody that's out there that just didn't have anywhere to go, we want to give them a place to go, and where they feel comfortable and included and special for a day. And I think it's important, I think it's important for a community to have that.

Betsy Bonnema (24:41):
Yeah. So neat to hear you talk about that because I know you're a very avid brewer and I know you have a passion for brewing beer. But I think we heard way more about your passion for your community in our discussions that seemed to really be driving just your passion to work through this COVID thing and get to the other side. So that was neat to see. We also heard some stories about events that you put on in your space that are really different and unique, and we know that it's never boring at Forbidden Barrel. So tell us about your philosophy of feeling like you need to be somewhere people can try new things.

Brent (25:26):
In our city, it's a very diverse community. And it goes back to the community again, to experience those new things. And sometimes I feel like the north side of the tracks doesn't like to associate with the south side of the tracks, or the east side or the west side, because they're not familiar with them. And there's so many cool things out there that exist right under our noses, right in our communities that I don't think people even knew. The belly dancing, I think was one of them. It was a way to show what was important to a subset of the culture in our community, and that's just not something you get to see in Southwest Minnesota. Like Melissa was saying with Bluenose, that they're having a night where somebody can come in and teach people about Dungeons and Dragons, or whatever it is. Even if you aren't interested in it now, maybe it's something that just opens your eyes up and helps you understand somebody else a little bit better by having that experience.

Betsy Bonnema (26:51):
Yeah. For listeners, you had an event where you got to watch some belly dancing and learn about that, and that was I guess, very well-attended and kind of a unique thing you really can't find anywhere else, at least around here.

Brent (27:08):
No.

Betsy Bonnema (27:09):
Yeah. And there's a special beer you make, I'm trying to remember, is it the jalapeno beer?

Brent (27:17):
Yap. Paycheck. Yeah.

Betsy Bonnema (27:18):
So that's another example of just something that you really wanted to create that was completely different.

Brent (27:25):
It's probably not your typical beer style that most brewers would make, or even the way my wife convinced me to decorate it with the rim on it to make it almost like a margarita. But it's again, so much of our business is reliant on always pushing the envelope a little bit, being different, and to the point where it's an experience for somebody. And I think that that's really the key is that people are going to remember that, whether they agreed with the way it was done or not, or whatever. It's an experience that they've had that they're going to remember, they're going to fall back on. And it may just be something that they didn't know they liked.

Brent (28:22):
And that's been the really interesting part is to see a lot of my Norwegian heritage friends drinking a jalapeno beer. And my kids have always said that I think mayonnaise is hot, so it's been fun to see and that's part of what craft is. And Melissa knows it with Bluenose, and Krista and Andy with Painted Prairie is that's what kind of doing things as a business owner and as an entrepreneur, it's about experimenting and trying something new and pushing the envelope. And sometimes you win, sometimes you don't. But you never win if you don't try. And I know that sounds like the poster with the cat hanging on the tree or whatever it is, but I think it has a lot of truth to it, and you just may have fun doing it.

Betsy Bonnema (29:27):
Well you've proven that, that's for sure.

Brent (29:32):
I do like to have fun.

Betsy Bonnema (29:33):
Yes. You have a very quiet demeanor and very serious demeanor, but we all know that there's way more to you Brent than what we see on the Zoom call like at face value, so got to get to your place. Okay, thank you for that. And Krista and Andy, again, you create such an experience for your customers and I know how meaningful your ability to do that is. The fact that you can transport them to a completely different type of place so they can have a glass of wine, which is delicious, but also such an experience because it's in a venue that is completely unique. And you have a real passion for that outdoors and that nature aspect of your setting. Tell us about how that kind of fuels your vision for the business itself.

Krista K. (30:34):
I would say that we knew our outside was amazing, and that was one of the reasons we fell in love to begin with. Actually, we quite understood what an asset that was until COVID, and so now so much of what we love to showcase and share with folks is not only our whole entire property, but also then that connection from that farm to table piece. And as we really worked through our why, we knew connecting people to that agricultural piece was huge.

Andy K. (31:19):
One of the exciting things that I like to tell people is you can have a glass of Marquette wine sitting on our beautiful patio, 50 feet away from where those grapes grew, which I think is super cool. We really like to sell that part of it and we kind of try to keep that going through, and the food venue that we're building as well is that we can in most cases tell people exactly where their cheese came from, or we're working toward getting it so we can tell people where their meat came from, all those kind of things, which we think is part of the fun of it. So you can sit among the farm and enjoy the fruits of the labor.

Betsy Bonnema (32:00):
Yeah. So unique. So one of the things you ended up asking your tribe or some of your best customers through our process was, "What would you miss about us if we were gone?" What did you learn?

Krista K. (32:15):
I would say there was a couple things that we learned from that. One is we had a unique place that is perfect for special events. And we heard multiple times, "This is a place that we love to bring family and friends because it's that special." And then also the outside, being able to have such a beautiful outside space, so unique and different to Southwest Minnesota that they can share with others.

Betsy Bonnema (32:47):
Did it make you feel pretty proud because really people are really connected to the things that seem to matter a lot to you around what you've built? Did that feel good?

Krista K. (32:59):
Of course, it did. As a new business owner, you're like, "Well, then tell all your friends."

Betsy Bonnema (33:08):
Yeah. Great. Yeah, of course. All right. Well, again, you guys it's been an honor to hear the story and the journey that you traveled through COVID. And just getting started as a new business is hard enough, but then having to face what we all faced with COVID as a business owner, it's incredible what you've overcome to still be here and still be in business. And I think small businesses in rural Minnesota and rural Midwest are the unsung heroes. They really are. I think they put everything on the line, and they put themselves in it 1000%, and I think they carry a lot of the hope of their communities to hang in there and still be there when we're counting on you. And I know that you felt that a lot hearing from your customers is sort of, "We still need you. We need you. Don't give up. We got you. We need you."

Betsy Bonnema (34:09):
So one thing I'd like to ask you guys to comment on and again thinking about who's listening, what do small business owners need to think about or know going into tough situations like this? What are some things you learned starting this business and going through COVID that you think other people could learn from your experience with it? And why do we need each other? I think one of the things I see in these groups is like how bad we do need each other, how helpful it is to walk through some of this stuff with other people that are in the trenches, in the same type of trenches we are. So Brent, maybe you can share, is there things that you learned that are worth sharing?

Brent (35:00):
I don't know if it's a lesson or inspiring or not, but I think it may hold true is that it probably doesn't even matter with COVID, it's anyone starting a new business, there's going to be days that just suck. And it might be weeks and months that are just awful and horrible. And the big thing when it gets to those points is to focus back on what it is that you're doing, why is it this way? Is there something else that we could be doing trying to alleviate that and rectify this situation?

Brent (35:53):
And no matter how bad it gets, it's like Krista and Andy, I watched them as a family doing this, myself and my wife and our two children that work here at the brewery, it's paying attention to those people that are around you in that business too. Because it sucks for you, and you don't want it to also impact those relationships in your personal life. You have to have that separation and bring it all back into focus that what's important, and you can only control what you can control. The stuff that's out of your control, you need to stop worrying about.

Betsy Bonnema (36:43):
Glad you mentioned that about relationships and family, because small business owners typically it's a strain on relationships to do what we do, whether we're in business with our family member, or whether we're just being emotionally supported by friends and family can put a strain. So Brent, Cheryl had a comment in our class about, "There's no such thing as a new normal."

Brent (37:11):
There's changes all the time, maybe not as extensive as what COVID is, but two years from now, there's going to be something else that causes things to be the new normal. Everything is always changing, and we just need to be able to understand that and have a plan going forward that says, "What do we do when we sense that happening? How do we keep on track, but now we got to do things a little bit different?"

Betsy Bonnema (37:47):
Okay. Krista and Andy, thinking about what you've learned through COVID and people that might be listening, maybe other family-owned businesses that are just getting their bearings and trying to be optimistic and inspired and make a plan, what advice do you have for them? What things do you have you could share?

Andy K. (38:08):
I think one thing I would say, and this is kind of similar to what Brent said earlier is that number one, don't fear change, especially don't fear failure from your change. Some ideas are going to work and some ideas are not. Don't lose too much sleep over the ones that didn't, and try to leverage much as you can out of the ones that do. I think that's what we've learned the most, and never be afraid of the next change, like Brent just gave us really.

Betsy Bonnema (38:40):
Do you think that's part of what's exhausting, is the idea that you always have to be changing? That can drain you a little bit. Is that part of maybe what was happening with you, Krista?

Krista K. (38:51):
I think what I found the most exhausting wasn't necessarily that we had to change, it was just this constant, I don't know how to describe it other than this whirlwind around us trying to continually remind people Painted Prairie was alive and don't forget about us. For me, it's really knowing what your assets are. And sometimes you don't necessarily always entirely see it, but it's also talking with your consumers and having a good pulse with them to where they're at. And that really helps. You kind of understand and know what is working and what makes people tick.

Betsy Bonnema (39:33):
All right. Thank you for sharing. So Melissa, tell us a little bit about your hard won moments and maybe some lessons that you've come out of COVID with that you could share with listeners.

Melissa P. (39:46):
Okay. Well, yeah, I just wanted to piggyback on what Brent had to say about change. There's seems to be a lot of people that really fear change, fear things being different, but change is like that unstoppable force, it's just going to happen. In my head, there's three things you can do. You can walk in front of it, you can walk beside it, or you can get dragged behind kicking and screaming, but it's going to happen whether you want it to or not. So in my head, if you can be ahead of it, awesome. But at the minimum, walk next to it and go with it, because it's pointless to fight it. It's going to happen. So the best way in my head that you can deal with it is to have that creativity and flexibility and adaptability.

Melissa P. (40:39):
So that's understandably difficult, and I think like you were saying, Krista, that things changing wasn't necessarily exhausting to you, I think it's a little bit of both. I think it's inspiring and exciting, and also exhausting. It's what gets you going in the morning, and it's also what makes you want to go to bed at night because it's work, it's a lot of work. But I really feel like the ability to listen and learn and take in new ideas, and not just in your own head too. I mean, I think, again that's the benefit that we have as a cooperative is that we've got constant flow of information and ideas from others. I can't possibly think of everything.

Melissa P. (41:34):
And to not see other people's ideas as a resource is shutting things out. So I know it's harder sometimes for individually-owned small businesses, but if you have people in your lives that you can talk to, and bring them in and say, "Hey, what do you think? Or what are your ideas?" Doesn't mean you necessarily have to follow them, of course, but I think sometimes we get too stuck on thinking we have to handle everything ourselves, and it's not a bad thing to ask for help.

Betsy Bonnema (42:10):
Is there anything that you heard or saw these guys going through that helped you see something differently, that you learned from them, that gave you a different perspective on your business?

Melissa P. (42:23):
Definitely. Well, I mean, there were the practical things, which is just like, I didn't know there were scheduling apps out there that people could use to set up. That's really cool and we're going to make use of that. But then there's also just, it's such a helpful thing, and of course, we already sort of have that within our cooperative, but also to have other people who are running businesses and experiencing similar difficulties, and to be able to just kind of talk about that and figure it out together. I mean, it's just really helpful to have that.

Betsy Bonnema (43:03):
Thank you. Brent, did you learn anything that maybe was unique to being alongside other entrepreneurs like you? Did you learn anything from the other businesses that gave you a different perspective on things?

Brent (43:18):
Just the fact of sitting down with other people who are in the same situation, I mean, maybe it's like a therapy session. And I don't want to use Alcoholics Anonymous, because we're all in the alcohol business, but it gives you a chance to understand that everybody has the same struggles. What did they do to overcome those struggles? And then picking up ideas that, "Oh. Maybe that's something that we should incorporate." Or like Melissa said with the scheduling. I know we brought an online scheduling system into our brewery and employees love it because they can see their schedule online, they can request days off online. If it's only going out there and even just picking up one thing, that's the important thing to look for is always be looking for that one thing that you can do to make an improvement. And I think that that's what we've been able to come together as a group and get to some of those points.

Betsy Bonnema (44:41):
I would agree. I learn so much from all of you every time we do these. Krista and Andy, is there anything in particular you learned from other business owners through going through a process like this that made you think differently about your business?

Krista K. (44:54):
I really valued, A, connecting with everyone. That was amazing. And I also found value in everyone's feedback. So that was one thing that it seemed like it was just integrated and part of this whole process. But every week we were able to share insight with each other on what we saw in each other's businesses. And I mean, it's always awesome to get that from other business owners, is there's things that you just don't see yourself because you're so into it for yourself, so most certainly those things. Those are the big things for me.

Andy K. (45:35):
Yeah. I would say the same thing. I mean, it's really important to have somebody that can look at your blind spots too. You get a certain way of thinking and you're stuck there, having somebody to push back down a little bit is really good.

Betsy Bonnema (45:47):
Thank you. Well, in terms of what we found, I think we on some level found each other. And I think what I love is seeing how you guys help each other, and just sharing experiences that you have in common is helpful. Because I think a person who starts a business, especially in rural Minnesota, rural Midwest can feel pretty isolated sometimes, and we can get lost in our own heads sometimes. So feeling lost but then finding each other in the battle, I think is part of the win here. So I want to thank you guys for going through the process with me and with Jenna in the first place, but coming back to share with others what we learned, and I hope we can keep doing this. I'll try to get these kind of podcasts going more and more and get your voices in the mix more and more. So thank you and thanks for sharing.

Betsy Bonnema (46:49):
Thanks for listening to Lost and Found. If you want to learn more about our startup programs, go to startupscene.cc. Watch for more episodes and hear more stories from entrepreneurs and small business owners across the Midwest who were lost and then found something that changed everything. Thanks.

Betsy Bonnema (47:07):
(silence)